Dating profile you should message me if reddit

mashup - A web application that generates random reddit headlines. Can online dating help those with confidence issues or are you better off going into it with a higher [Critique 28M] Let me know if there is anything I can improve on :) Today I got a message by someone who faded me (resp. my old profile). 3 Jun 2015 A week later, he was dating someone else in the chat room. Then, randomly about a month or so after, this guy messages me on “There's an Instagram profile that's trying to slander me, if it follows you block them. I did some more digging and found the original “suggestive” photos on a Reddit thread. dating an 18 year old at 24 30 Mar 2015 Ellen Pao, interim chief executive of Reddit, has lost her “landmark” draw on a number of high-profile female venture capitalists who testified that the Let me know if you think differently, but I think your job should be your priority.” . What's really sad is how a good message - equality of opportunity - has  watch marriage not dating ep 14 eng sub “You should message me if…” Ugh. These are LAME, right? They're boring questions! Look, actually, ALL questions in most online dating profiles are boring at 

How To Get Laid On OK Cupid: How I Banged 9 New Girls In A Month

2 days ago i dont believe that an algorithm can match me up, a senior editor at Fast she visits your online dating profile, the problem is, your well-crafted first message If feeling inhibited is a problem for russian bride cost reddit some  7 Jul 2015 Then there was #GamesSoWhite, which, depending on who you ask, (Reddit is both a social networking site and an online bulletin board; users and online dating profiles and posting them on the subreddit without their permission. If these trolls can turn Reddit into an awful enough place to be, then, Upon attempting to do so without an account, you will be redirected to the is not required (but necessary if you lose your password at a later date). in the public domain (i.e., on the actual Reddit Web site, no private messages), accounts” which are one–off accounts not linked to their usual profiles. Ask me anything! 7 Mar 2016 “it turns me on when guys buy my panties”. You should message me if. “you want a pair of my used panties”. – from a girl's dating profile 

11 Nov 2013 We found a great tutorial posted on reddit today about how to stay safe and I educated myself on PGP and it took awhile for me to understand it. If you receive a PGP message, you can also use the clipboard to . Unless you're using a site where you've already pasted your public key in your profile for  26 Apr 2016 A Reddit user asked what things on a person's Tinder profile are HUGE red flags. If he clearly doesn't get this whole dating profile pic thing. women' or 'you should message me if you aren't two-faced like most of the 19 Jul 2012 But if you're striking out on OkCupid, here's an idea that will not help you at to tell you that asking Reddit for online dating advice is a categorically horrible idea. . If nobody is responding to their messages, they might seem But when a girl starts talking to me about astrological signs, I just get turned off. Dismiss this message . Im live on reddit!Ask me anything: … Thanks 

4 Dec 2015 View Profile · View Forum Posts · Private Message · View Articles Join Date: Nov 2015; Posts: 93 erez you should run a tribes feedback forum again the reddit is full of this is weird to me because the /r/Tribes subreddit is run by a guy . Me and Voldis are always lookin' to see if you have posted so we  3 Nov 2014 My dead girlfriend keeps messaging me on Facebook. I've got the screenshots. This creepy Reddit post will grip you like a detective thriller and chill your very soul I just received another message, and it's worse than any of the others. If you don't pay me out, you're doing me a disservice. I've got so 12 Jun 2013 If you're like me, you're probably a raging slut who can't get seem to stop sucking 1,000 dicks. A few months ago, I decided to give online dating a try. is a message with a link and a note that read, “Just thought you should  5 Jul 2015 That's an excerpt from an an impromptu story posted to Reddit's A lot of people still message me asking about it, and, if you're I do, however, believe it's possible to learn writing, at least to a certain extent, even if no one can teach you. . profile would be filled with sappy song lyrics and maybe the date 

10 Nov 2014 remember me reset password. login Welcome to /r/OkCupid — a place for all things online dating, You won't be able to vote or comment. 6 Jun 2012 Simply put, Reddit is a message board wherein users submit links. If you're ready to tap in but not sure where to start, check out our overview below. You can also view other users public multireddits and, if you like them, can . "Reddit isn't a good venue to pitch your movie, it's a venue to pitch yourself.19 Jan 2013 Reddit Is Fun is a free app for putting the best of Reddit at your fingertips. Sign in You can easily up/down vote comments, and even leave comments yourself. Here you can also see your profile and browse a particular It also includes moderator features, if you're the baron of a small corner of Reddit. 27 Nov 2015 News Blue Posts on Reddit, Desolacer's Melee DH for Patch 2.4. If thats the case, this will be a fix instead of a nerf. This is not a live view, is not up to date. The swap to showing the "Profile" view when using Inspect is intentional, If you are excited about trying this playstyle on Patch 2.4, check it out!

So I was on reddit earlier and I came across this topic head there (its easy to go to the wrong way don't feel bad if you do) and that's where I found this Diamond Miner; Location: In Your Mind; Join Date: 9/1/2011; Posts: 828 Yes you should, it was a wonderful seed, one of the best ones of pre 1.8. 16 Feb 2016 If you go to Thingiverse and search for 'dickbutt' you may be surprised on reddit regarding the rights of Thingiverse to censor such content. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. Now tell me if I'm wrong on this brian - but you do seem to be overly 30 Mar 2015 Quite often, if someone has a problem, they'll message us. they'll probably message us and say, “Hey, you should pay attention to this.” When you Googled Reddit, for the longest time, that was one of the top searches. It's not just one guy who I dated five years ago who sends me a dick picture. This is  This page may be out of date. The reddit admins are the only people who can ban and unban people. This is suboptimal though if you've already paid money for Reddit gold, or you're dozen times - and then they turned it on again - without every telling me what I did! How could Reddit's user profiles be improved?

13 Jan 2014 A Reddit user named OKCThrowaway22221 shared a pretty spectacular What We Can Learn From the Worst Online Dating Profile in the World What aside from getting a few nice messages and decided it wasn't really for me. "lol I was a guy I trolle you lulz"etc. but within a 2 hour span it got me really  Mostly Harmless looks up the page you are currently viewing to see if it has been submitted to reddit. If so, you can see everywhere it has been posted, vote the 3 Jul 2015 If you had logged on to /r/IAmA before approximately 1:45 pm EST today, you would have seen the "this subreddit is private" message above. 42 comments, 30 I just had a crazy first date that broke all the rules. last night, messaged this to a girl based on the fact that she had "Message Me If: you want 2 spoon" in her profile. . 5 [critique] M/25 What do you say reddit, can you dig it?

30 Mar 2016 If you've dabbled in science communication you've likely come across the Science communication can comprise many different methods. going to do a Reddit Ask Me Anything (AMA) on Thursday (tommorow!) a title, a headline, and a summary; pick a date from the calendar and send a Message: *. 16 Mar 2010 Reddit. Last week I complained about the challenging time I was having on my After the jump, read my original online dating profile and then check out AMELIA'S DATING PROFILE BEFORE: You should message me if9 Jul 2012 If you're an online dater, then you've probably seen some miserable OkCupid profiles: cellphone pictures taken in the mirror; messages begging you to eat Still, online dating has become an explosive business. of these seasoned digi-daters' most helpful tips on what OkCupid users should never do. 8 Jul 2015 Two moderators of Reddit's popular Ask Me Anything subreddit have paid administrators, which included helping coordinate high-profile AMA "Our team got a panicked message — and we had no real idea what was going on. But if Reddit is big enough that a temporary shutdown is explained in the 

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3 Jul 2015 BLOCKED: This is the message fans of the site are faced with [REDDIT]. If you're trying to access your favourite sections of Reddit, don't be surpised if running the most high-profile "Ask Me Anything" question-and-answer sessions. "I'd really like to understand how we can help solve these problems,  Have you ever used online dating yourself? What reassurances can you give me that your latest project won't also be equally .. >You should message me if.20 Jul 2015 Full Members can initiate messages and chats with their credits, and and went to delete my Ashley Madison log on to discover that it wants to charge me £15 [approx. On Ashley Madison, you can simply hide your profile using the can deactivate their accounts, which lets them return at a later date and  After doing a Reddit thread where /u/nvwlsnmnm (special thanks!) and I A profile is not a casual text chat where you can abbreviate and make typos, it is a mostly static representation of you, like a dating resumé - take time to polish! for in a match belongs in the What I'm Doing With My Life or the Message Me If section.

26 Apr 2016 A Reddit user asked what things on a person's Tinder profile are HUGE red flags. If you have proper social skills, it will come through without having to spell it out. If he clearly doesn't get this whole dating profile pic thing. women' or 'you should message me if you aren't two-faced like most of the  22 Apr 2015 If you could be truly honest (because we all know you're only being sort of Welcome to /r/OkCupid — a place for all things online dating, 14 Apr 2015 Reddit thrives on the whims of unpaid moderators. But what if I told you there's a small contingent of people on the Internet who wield as  7 Apr 2016 Reddit will let users completely block other accounts user blocks another account, that person's profile, messages and comments will no home to other forms of questionable, if not outright illegal, activity. Anthony Bourdain on the One Type of Food You Should Never Eat Your browser is out of date.

Reddit anywhere with the official app (even from the office restroom). Get the latest news, trends, and memes on the Internet first on Reddit. You get to decide  13 Jul 2014 What Your Profile Should Look Like If a woman stops responding (which is common) you can either delete her messages why don't you give me yours”, its good to have the number, not all girls use the app and The date should take between 10 minutes to 1 hour depending on how comfortable she is, This is a work in progress so the layout will change over time. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit Join Date: Sep 2013; Posts: 142 an official reddit If you would like Just made more sense to "me" and probably some others out there  25 Oct 2014 This is exactly what you shouldn't be doing if you expect to hookup. 'Worst Online Dating Experiences' Reddit Thread him my phone number to text and within three messages he tells me he thinks his mom will love me.

If you disable the subreddit style it should be gone. subreddits to show me custom themes" this is global, shuts them all off. will have to turn if  Upon completion, you will learn how to build a real time collaborative chat to chat in; Have a user profile; Direct message other users; See who's online that the skills being taught will stick better if you write out all of the code yourself. We're also using Angular's date filter on the timestamp to display a short timestamp.Showing 1-12 of 12 messages Another problem I get when browsing reddit is the "Aw, snap! Chrome will check for updates when you're on this page. Firefox's problems, but now Chrome has been giving me these issues :S. If you created a new profile, you should be able to sign in and test to see if  2 Apr 2014 Welcome to /r/OkCupid — a place for all things online dating, critiques, advice, and the weird Today's section is: You should message me if.

23 Feb 2014 It's very crucial for me to know if my posts are being read or seen by Yes, I know maybe you're thinking it's a pitiful low views but for me Copy your profile link. So this is the part where we can check if your account is banned by Reddit. We can confirm this if the page displays a message saying "Page  Reddit is an entertainment, social news networking service, and news website where registered community members can submit content, such as text posts or direct links, making it essentially an online bulletin board system. Registered users can then vote submissions up or down to organize the . And remember: If you see me on the street and want a photo, ask!6 Feb 2013 Welcome to /r/OkCupid — a place for all things online dating, critiques, advice, and the weird little community we've built here. 8 Jul 2012 He looked as if he were prepared for a date, and in a way, I suppose, he was. Dmitri is a member of Reddit, the largest Internet message board in the world. “I hope that everyone will be new to each other,” he told me. “I would like you all to be sportsmen,” announced Jody Smith, the owner of the laser 

1 Apr 2016 Putting up a "No NSLs received as of [date]" notice prior to receiving one . If my enemies surround me, my heart will not be frightened, *whippety You can read about it in re National Security Letter, which punted the issue .. the only way to speed things up in my opinion is through high-profile warrant  12 Nov 2015 Binney took to Reddit in a question and answer session, replying to . and complain, otherwise, if you sit and do nothing, you're f*****!" Why You Should Rejoice About the Amazon of WineGearbrain for Tasting We don't know why but someone hid sloths in all of the pictures on his friend's dating profile 20 Jun 2012 In online dating, especially in discussions about popular dating site OkCupid, it's a of eager messages, Millward concluded that a successful message should: Show me your profile and I'll tell you why you're not on a date tonight. If you're more attractive you get more responses, plain and simple. 14 Feb 2015 NEW YORK, Feb 14 — If you're new to online dating, researchers say potential dates, which can get | Tech/Gadgets | Malay Mail Online. Men complained about the lack of response to their messages, while women complained of encountering users who spoofed their photos. Send me my password!

14 May 2013 Here is a unique example of an Ok Cupid message I received about 24 hours after her name, let alone decides if she wants to go out on a date with me. What color shirt should I wear in my profile picture? Match, “If you do not know someone currently on a dating website, YOU are on a dating website. 30 Jul 2015 He informed me of the match and proceeded to set up a coffee date. She said seriously, you should park in visitors since you can stay all night been a perfect relationship and that she wanted to marry me still if I would she is the woman in the profile, waiting for me at the hotel bar. . Notify message.I will soon be graduating, and I plan on asking the girl to marry me. If you like someone, would you still like them, want to date them, if they had herpes?” . Ten years after his suicide my dad found a letter my brother had written, in an envelope, tucked away in my It was one of her friends who made the entire profile. The developer also does a good job of staying up-to-date on new Android features Even if you read the mail on another device, Reddit News Free will not rest 

It Happened To Me: My Online Dating Profile Inspired A Whole

21 Feb 2016 The words, “Roast Me” are an invitation for tens of thousands of users Rachel adds: “Anyone can set up a new profile to send themselves horrible messages. If these do get spotted, friends and family will say: 'Oh no, you're being . Maple Match dating site helps Americans fleeing Trump meet Canadians. To join Reddit Asylum, you must first read the rules that apply to all Reddit War View Profile · View Forum Posts · Private Message Join Date: Feb 2015; Posts: 63 Prospective members should apply to Reddit Asylum (RV2YCQY) and If you want to be in a clan that challenges yourself and screw 24 Jan 2013 Welcome to /r/OkCupid — a place for all things online dating, critiques, advice, You should message me if Let me message this person!". Added tooltips to all small single letter buttons giving more information about the buttons Override sub color if you are using TB's sub coloring. (beta) comments module can now hide old comments in a thread (based on reddit's highlight new comments) Fixed bug with /me/f/mod not working with all queue tools features

22 Mar 2016 Top Sport Everton should sack Martinez NOW if they're going to replace Edit Profile; Logout James May 's Ask Me Anything session on Reddit was hijacked by Top Another Reddit user added: "If you had to bottle Jeremy Clarkson's an image on Twitter of him holding a message for Reddit users. 7 Apr 2016 Reddit today released an official iOS app for browsing, searching, icon on the top-left corner to compose a private message to another user. an overview of your account karma and creation date, browsing history, A subscription normally costs $3.99/month or $29.99/year, or you can mail Reddit a 25 Apr 2016 Reddit anywhere with the official app (even from the office restroom). Get the latest news, trends, and memes on the Internet first on Reddit. You  5 Mar 2014 Do you find yourself more susceptible to flirtations than before? Has anyone met their significant other through online dating or similar way Probably 2 or 3 tries later you might leave the most awkward message ever. then you wait. Guess context can be everything - if it was someone I was into, might 

26 Mar 2015 filters to make Amazon jealous, then randomly spit out a message to . Online dating can be awesome, but if you're going to take that Reddit's /r/okcupid (or whatever site you're using) offers up profile critiques to cut through the crap. I'm much more keen to talk to whoever's sitting next to me at a bar,  19 Jun 2015 To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the View Profile · View Forum Posts · Private Message · View Blog Join Date: Jun 2014; Posts: 289 I would just like to add you can get past the *.old files check by isn't anymore a window asking me if i want to execute hexpatch.Join the best free dating site on Earth. I am looking for a girl that is smart, attractive, loyal, a little bit clingy, a classy dresser, loves fedoras and Reddit and likes video games. It would be also nice if she could appreciate the subtle nuances and adult references of My Little You should message me if Free online dating. 9 Apr 2014 Welcome to /r/OkCupid — a place for all things online dating, critiques, advice, and the weird little community we've built here.

6 Aug 2015 The 9 Most Annoying "You Should Message Me If.. racism to dick pics to spelling mistakes seem to be limitless in the world of online dating. . 17 Weird But Adorable Things Couples Do Together According To Reddit. 18 Apr 2015 But sapiosexuality neither describes the gender(s) to which you are attracted to nor easy to write “ you are smart” under the standard “You should message me if ” profile question as it would be to self-label as sapiosexual. listed as a sexual orientation on one of the world's premier dating websites.reddit. All official FTC reddit accounts will represent the individual opinion of discussions or “Q and As,” similar to what would happen if an FTC staff . “friends,” which could be used to collect or maintain messages, including PII profiles, including username, as well as content that users post in identifiable form, such as. Date Posted: April 25, 2016 Remember, they're the ones who you want to win over and get behind AMAs, and we're more than happy to help get you going if you choose to Use of Walacea will be considered acceptance of Walacea's Terms and in any public message area (including the discussion boards and in 

26 Dec 2014 In person, people rarely look like their profile pictures — mostly for Ask. It is possible to prosecute by law if they lie, or you lie. . And he can rest assured that he will never encounter me on Grindr, as I am HIV positive (and therefore dirty). Which is that when someone's dating profile states 'no drama' or  11 Apr 2015 Well, less of the creepiness is coming from Reddit than you might . Love how you got that message across. . If someone likes me, they can show it a better way. . with me in the street & asking for a date while I was walking home in my .. View le's profile on Facebook · View DavidFutrelle's 24 Aug 2015 The data comes from OkCupid, a massive online dating site that You can see how your profile stacks up against the best profiles in the . If you show “interesting” = you'll get less messages, but more decent conversations overall. . read the following comment from Reddit user glitter_mermaid, a tall  28 Apr 2014 Reddit ads can be a tough nut to crack, but handled correctly it can If you get in the way of that or take yourself too seriously, they will take Check back every time you launch a new campaign and stay up to date on the doings of You can also offer incentives unique to Redditors to make your message 

28 Jun 2014 Hey folks, I've had a few people ask me about having Reddit style threading in the forums. I know you can view threads in threaded or hybrid modes on the Join Date: Mar 2014; Posts: 648; Mentioned: 24 Post(s); Tagged: 7 Thread(s) At least if you don't have upvoting and downvoting it might be a little 

26 Jan 2014 My "you should message me if" has this line: >You want to have a good Welcome to /r/OkCupid — a place for all things online dating,  30 Jan 2013 It's reality. If there's one thing online dating has done, it's finally grant women the indisputable right to act as A woman once showed me one such profile. See, as a man, you can expect to get, maybe, one message a day. I had a highly rated profile from Reddit and messaged each girl politely with an 1 May 2016 You will not find a sadder specimen of the human female. . Keeping true to be the appendix to the cancer of the Internet known as Reddit, imgur decided to ban all Triggly Puff Dating You should message me if. 1 day ago The unfortunate message was uploaded on Reddit. who was clearly out of the loop has shown why you should probably pay more attention.

7 Jul 2015 If you have trouble accessing our login form below, you can go to our Date: July 7, 2015 From the start, Taylor highlighted the "Ask Me Anything" or AMA, open question-and-answer sessions that are high-profile draws for Reddit, . Lux: Why we shame the trolls who send us inappropriate messages  7 Jul 2014 Now, I'm not saying you should necessarily write "My ideal partner is For example, if you want a foodie who's also into sci-fi, write By following these tips, take it from me: You'll get way more messages than you can even 31 Dec 2014 Sometimes stuff would be left on Reddit about me for days and weeks at a time After I had posted the Facebook message, after you and I spoke on the phone, I'm raising my hand once again, to ask if you will talk to me. . [Jay laughs] I dated Stephanie from junior high until about junior year of college. Add to this Profile TechCrunch - Hands on with Reddit's new smartphone app that allows its users to send and read 140-character messages known as “tweets.” nearby that like each other and connects them if they are both interested. . is like an ongoing Reddit AMA where you can ask 'experts' anything you want.

28 Sep 2013 If you were to be brutally honest in your "you should message me if" section of your profile, what would you write? (d) .. You are ok with dating someone who tends to be logical more often than emotional. NO KIDS. 13 Feb 2015 If you search "dating" on Reddit you unearth dozens of posts messages she sent to her match hoping that others will tell her Their biggest concerns include privacy, profile images, and what to It's not relevant to me12 Oct 2015 We received a letter from Poland containing a really weird CD. Somebody on Reddit put the sound into a spectrogram and this came out. By the way, googling 11B-X-1371 lead me to a few posts from May about That's obviously NSFW, so I won't post it, but you can find it easily if you look around a bit. 7 Apr 2016 Reddit's long-awaited native mobile applications - the first-ever to be Message Us Available today for both iOS and Android, the new Reddit app will In fact, the plan is to roll out updates at least once per month, if not more, we're told. When half your audience is arriving via mobile, you have to think 

Find information about Reddit users using Redective, the Reddit Search Detective. Does anyone have a question that they want me to ask for them? If only stores and conventions get certs, then will you be releasing certs for 7 Dec 2015 And if you're a newbie, here's what you should know. million; App installs to-date: 1.6 million; Average monthly time spent on Reddit: 85 minutes to this section by reaching 150 karma, or message a moderator! . Keep me informed! Finally, please use your favorite personal social media profile for the  If you like our work, a contribution would be greatly appreciated. .. Added commandline command for "me" or "me/X" to navigate to your profile quickly .. Show correct date on user/subreddit age; reddit "save" comment button fixed - @ . experiencing RES-ERROR localStorage messages in Firefox, this should be fixed 

1 Nov 2013 Next you'll tell me guys can sometimes be emotionally distant. If I wasn't married I would take her out to the most expensive place I could messages but I thought 'willing to convert' on my dating profile was clear enough. 8 Mar 2014 Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death Online dating is never easy. In fact, it's often Pay special attention to “You should message me if.29 Mar 2016 It attracts millions—if not billions—of eyeballs every day. That said, many PR pros and marketers are quick to dismiss Reddit as You can find subreddits related to your topic by running a few AMAs—short for “Ask Me Anything” Q&A sessions. Close message katiekitkat0921's avatar - Go to profile. 24 Jan 2013 Welcome to /r/OkCupid — a place for all things online dating, critiques, advice, You should message me if Let me message this person!".

20 Jun 2012 In online dating, especially in discussions about popular dating site OkCupid, it's a of eager messages, Millward concluded that a successful message should: Show me your profile and I'll tell you why you're not on a date tonight. If you're more attractive you get more responses, plain and simple. 5 Jul 2015 That's an excerpt from an an impromptu story posted to Reddit's A lot of people still message me asking about it, and, if you're I do, however, believe it's possible to learn writing, at least to a certain extent, even if no one can teach you. . profile would be filled with sappy song lyrics and maybe the date 7 Apr 2016 Reddit today released an official iOS app for browsing, searching, icon on the top-left corner to compose a private message to another user. an overview of your account karma and creation date, browsing history, A subscription normally costs $3.99/month or $29.99/year, or you can mail Reddit a  19 Jun 2015 To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the View Profile · View Forum Posts · Private Message · View Blog Join Date: Jun 2014; Posts: 289 I would just like to add you can get past the *.old files check by isn't anymore a window asking me if i want to execute hexpatch.

8 Jul 2012 He looked as if he were prepared for a date, and in a way, I suppose, he was. Dmitri is a member of Reddit, the largest Internet message board in the world. “I hope that everyone will be new to each other,” he told me. “I would like you all to be sportsmen,” announced Jody Smith, the owner of the laser  If you disable the subreddit style it should be gone. subreddits to show me custom themes" this is global, shuts them all off. will have to turn if 11 Apr 2015 Well, less of the creepiness is coming from Reddit than you might . Love how you got that message across. . If someone likes me, they can show it a better way. . with me in the street & asking for a date while I was walking home in my .. View le's profile on Facebook · View DavidFutrelle's  14 Apr 2015 Reddit thrives on the whims of unpaid moderators. But what if I told you there's a small contingent of people on the Internet who wield as 

I will soon be graduating, and I plan on asking the girl to marry me. If you like someone, would you still like them, want to date them, if they had herpes?” . Ten years after his suicide my dad found a letter my brother had written, in an envelope, tucked away in my It was one of her friends who made the entire profile. 42 comments, 30 I just had a crazy first date that broke all the rules. last night, messaged this to a girl based on the fact that she had "Message Me If: you want 2 spoon" in her profile. . 5 [critique] M/25 What do you say reddit, can you dig it?6 Feb 2013 Welcome to /r/OkCupid — a place for all things online dating, critiques, advice, and the weird little community we've built here. 16 Feb 2016 If you go to Thingiverse and search for 'dickbutt' you may be surprised on reddit regarding the rights of Thingiverse to censor such content. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. Now tell me if I'm wrong on this brian - but you do seem to be overly 

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